Nedbank unauthorised unauthorized debit orders

Nedbank has caused me a considerable amount of inconvenience and financial loss. I had to travel all over the Western Cape trying to find a branch that can help me. None of the Nedbank staff that I have come in contact with for the past month knows how to listen,

absorb before jumping to conclusions. Because of uninformed consultants like Naeem who started this whole inconvenience unnecessarily I lost a considerable amount of money having to pay for fuel, phone bills and an attorney to represent me when the police got involved as though I am a criminal for wanting my money back that was taken from me without my consent. This is totally unacceptable.

  

The whole situation started because of the branch manager at Claremont branch Naeem who did not want to listen. He was extremely stubborn and did not want to help me.

The debit orders started on the 18^th April 2013 and totaled R150 000 was deducted by Paysoft and Stratcol. I did not get the sms notifications because I have a 2 year old son who has a habit of playing with my cellphone and placing it in the most un-thought of places. I got my phone behind the fridge the 31^st  of May totally drained of battery life and then saw the notifications of all the deductions. I went online and google searched on my way to the bank what could have happened, and came across multiple articles and complaints that people had who had a similar thing happen to them. I also came about the PASA and the Ombusdsman for banking services bulletin no 12  for debit orders. As everyone claimed that a debit order is the only way someone can access your account but that the bank must reverse it. I then felt full of hope after reading these articles and thought I would easily get my money back because I know I did not sign any agreement with any company.

I went to the Nedbank Claremont Branch the 31^st May spoke to Retail Branch Manager, Naeem and he told me he saw on the system that the transactions that I want reversed was not a debit order and is EFT transactions and therefore he cannot reverse it, and that if I say I did not give authorization or have no knowledge of the transactions then he must put a block on my account and have it investigated as it looks like a fraudulent account .I then asked him how long the investigation will last and when I can expect my money back and he said 4-6 weeks and I wont be able to use my account .Then I told him I do not want his help and he must not send my account for investigation as I will not accept waiting that long for my money and I cannot have my account out of order for that time period as I would need to access it and use  the money for different business possibilities that could come along within that time and for living expenses.

 He seemed annoyed at me for instructing him to reverse the transactions and told me not to tell him what to do. The reason why I instructed him to reverse the money is because I read the bulletin of debit orders of the Ombudsman for the code of banking practice that a client must instruct his/her bank to reverse an unauthorized debit order. He did not want to act upon my instruction and was very stubborn to not follow what the procedure instructs him to do. I then left feeling robbed of all my money.  I feel totally destroyed and do not know how I will survive without my money, how can I pay my rent, buy groceries? I have a 2 year old son that I need to take care of and need access to my money.

Then I went to Hermanus Nedbank Branch. Because I felt I will get nowhere with the incompetent Nedbank consultants in the Southern Suburbs of Cape Town who all seem uninformed and incompetent. I went to the Hermanus branch on the 1^st June  spoke to a stand-in Branch Manager Marienette Geldenhuys and told her what had happened she told me the only way they could as Nedbank reverse it is if I had a stop order against the account that took the money from my account and if I reported it within 4 days of it being deducted from my account. I then asked her if Nedbank does not follow the code of banking practice because the PASA rules clearly states “ if a client disputes a debit order within 40 days from it appearing in his/her account , the customer must INSTRUCT the bank to have it reversed, the bank WILL then reverse it immediately.” She said not “Nedbank makes its own rules and does not follow the PASA” I then asked her to show me what those rules are  and she said it is not open for public to see only on the system of Nedbank and that the PASA does not regulate Nedbank. I then asked her how can I have a stop payment if I did not know that someone is going to deduct money from my account and that does not make any sense at all.  So she said that is the procedure Nedbank follows and that I can come back the Monday to see the Branch Manager. I then left feeling hopeless and totally robbed of my money and Nedbank is not helping at all. The Monday morning I followed the booklet for complaints resolution for Nedbank and called the Nedbank contact centre and spoke to Thipe Matohard. I explained everything to him, provided my ID number and he could quote me my reference number of my complaint, CCT 483903 and then told me that they cannot reverse the transaction as they can only reserve it if it is reported within 7 days and that it was to late to get my money back. He then gave the number of the Ombudsman for banking services , 086 0800 900 and fax number of 011 483 3282 . This number was different as the number on the booklet but still called it as he gave it to me. It was eventually the wrong number and had to wait several minutes on hold until I was transferred to the Ombudsman for banking services. The call came to an unbelievable charge. I then came to Don Mashigo of the Ombudsman for banking services and he asked me what the reasons why Nedbank does not want to help me. I then said because they said the time period that I came to late. He then said what I should do contact the Cape Town head office on 011 294 0291. He said that he will forward to me a document on how to complete a complaint with the Ombudsman if I do not get the money reversed by Nedbank. He then sent the documents to me but I did not send the complaint yet.

I then went to Hermanus branch later that day as Marrienette told me come see the branch manager, again I  had to pay a driver to drive me all over the Western Cape as it seemed I was getting nowhere. I had to borrow from friends and family to make ends meet as Nedbank does not want to help me get my own money back.

The Monday I spoke to Riedewaan Isaacs and he called Paysoft and Stratcol where Paysoft told him they acted on behalf of their client who does wendy house financing as they are only debit order facilitators. I then told him I do not even own a wendy house and R140 000 for a wendy house does not even make sense. Unless it is a wendy house made of gold. Debit orders totaling R10 000 was deducted by Stratcol for antique purchases. Apparently they also deducted the money on behalf of a other business. I think they are trying to shift blame and give me the run around so that they can get the blame shifted from them.

Paysoft contacted their client and could not get in touch with them but admitted that there were no mandates or authorization for the debit orders but they will continue to try getting in contact with their clients I then returned to the Branch and then was informed that Paysoft could not get hold of their client and Riedewaan told me that I should wait until Nedbank has completed their investigation as to what happened and he also said that Paysoft will have their own internal investigation as well and will have an answer for me within 20 working days and that I should call him frequently to follow up on the investigation. To me this was totally ridiculous! Since when can the person who stole from someone make the ultimatums. It was as though I was at the mercy of a company who unlawfully deducted my money to give my money back. The PASA and the bulletin for debit orders clearly touches on this issue as well. I quote  “  The debit order facility serves as a very convenient and useful manner of paying accounts. The vast majority of bank customers use this facility on a daily basis and rarely encounter any problems. It is however when a debit order is disputed that a bank customer encounters problems with his/her bank regarding the reversal or cancellation of the debit order. Based on the complaints we receive it has become apparent that many bank staff are unaware of the process to follow when dealing with a disputed debit order. Often bank customers are merely told to take the matter up with the company or institution that is debiting the account. This creates the impression that bank customers have no control over their accounts and are left at the mercy of unscrupulous companies that abuse the debit order facility”.

With this said I felt totally ruined as I still did not get my money back and by having an investigation is not a problem to me but first give me my money and then go way out with your investigation. Because the PASA and the Ombudsman for banking services bulletin no12 for debit order rules state that I must instruct the bank to reverse my money but they do not want to listen. It was like trying to explain this to a toddler when speaking to these consultants. At this point I still thought Nedbank was on my side with getting my money back but this changed dramatically when I was detained for questioning by the police!

I then used the bulletin of the Ombudsman for Banking Services where it states that I should instruct the banker to reverse the transactions within 40 days I  showed this to the Branch Manager Riedewaan Isaacs ( hermanus branch manager) I even took my laptop with and he read with me and we read it together  and he said that I am reading it wrong and it says that I can only get a debit order reversed once I had a stop order because it is written in the paragraph above the paragraph that states I should instruct the bank to reverse the debit orders. The quote from the bulletin for debit orders is as follows

” The customer can give their bank a written stop payment instruction to prevent a debit order for a specific amount being processed on their account. When a debit order is returned’ payment stopped” on the instruction of a customer, the user may not process further debits under the system.

A customer can instruct his her/ her bank to reverse a disputed debit order. If the disputed debit order is reported within 40 days of it appearing on the account, the bank will reverse it immediately.”

He argued with me saying that I am reading it wrong and that I must first have a stop payment for the debit orders to be reversed. I then told him that it does not state that “ on the condition that there is a stop payment” and that he cannot put in his own exceptions and wording , because it is written in a paragraph above does not make it a condition. I then told him to call the Ombudsman for services to clarify the issue, he said NO I cant.

 and that I should leave now as he can not help me and that he has already spent too much time talking to me about this and if I am not satisfied with his help that I can report him and there is nothing else that he can do for me. I then again left the branch feeling robbed of all my savings with no one to help me. What I do not understand is how can Nedbank put such incompetent, redundant consultants in charge of handling peoples livelihoods and income. It is like using fisherman to do a heart transplant. People should be properly trained to do what they do.

I then went to Gansbaai Nedbank Branch and spoke to Clayton Sauls the Branch Manager just to enquire about the debit order reversal procedure that Nedbank uses that is contradictory to the code of Banking Practice bulletin that I downloaded from the internet, again I had to pay for a driver to take me to a different branch because Hermanus had stubborn uninformed consultants causing me to loose money.Clayton Sauls then told me he is newly appointed and that he will try to assist me. We then went to his office where I gave him my ID number as I told him I do not have my ID book with me as I only came to him to enquire about the procedure but he said he can help me get it reversed with only my ID number so we continued then a few short minutes thereafter the local police arrived to take me in for questioning as there was some sort of alert on the Nedbank system to inform everyone that if I came to any Nedbank Branch for assistance that they should alert the police . This whole parade started because of Naeem. This guy should definitely get fired!!! I then had to leave my son by the driver to take care of him because apparently I am being questioned like a criminal.

 I was totally confused why I am the one being question, I AM THE ONE WHO SHOULD GET NEDBANK, PAYSOFT OR STRATCOL QUESTIONED FOR TAKING MY MONEY WITHOUT MY PERMISSION.

I then asked the police officers what I did wrong , they could not explain and I asked them as well as the branch manager who called the police what I did that was wrong if I want my money returned when I did not give anyone permission to take my money, they said because I am going from one branch to the next “trying my luck” then I asked the police officer how can I be trying my luck if I am in my rights to get my money back, then he could not answer me. I could not believe Nedbank had the audacity to have me questioned when they are the ones who let my money get taken from me. It’s like the burglar calling the police to arrest the home owner who he stole from for wanting his goods back from the burglar. It does not make any sense!!! To me it was an attempt by Nedbank to intimidate me to leave my money. In other words to have me bullied by the police to not act out my rights as a bank customer.

 I really do not know what Nedbank gets out of it. If they are in cahoots with the debit order companies or what. I was totally dumbstruck by the audacity to have me questioned. It was me alone with a whole room full of rude male police officers. I was so afraid and did not know what was going to happen. There are multiple stories online and articles of police harassing people in custody. I really thought this was going to happen. Because 6 male police officers were all shouting, bullying and accusing me that I am a drug pusher. I never felt so afraid in my life.  At a point I thought I was going to get raped. All I could think about was my son. I then had no choice but to get an attorney to protect of my rights. I then paid an attorney R2000 to advise me on what to do.

Then Clayton gave the police officers a copy of correspondence of Nedbank employees

where they mention things like I am a “fraudster and that no one should fall victim to me as I instructing them to return money that I claim was taken out of my account, that it is a new account that was not opened at Hermanus and that I am going to different branches in the Western Cape”. The police officer made me a copy of the email correspondence of the Nedbank co workers “These copies is currently with my attorney and will be used in my civil action against Nedbank for  Defamation of Character, Crimen in juria. I will also sue for compensation for costs involved to get my funds returned to me, like paying for a driver, telephone bills, legal representation all of which was totally unnecessary if Nedbank just did what they should. My human dignity and respect was abused by the police and Nedbank who accused me for doing nothing wrong. I was the one who was stolen from but everyone was too excited because of the amount that they claim to be a ‘big amount’ and that I am to young to have such an amount of money. The more I told them it is not such a big amount the more they felt insulted. Why must I give an explanation where my money comes from to unimportant people who wants to gossip and I think is jealous of me. Because it was as though these consultants went out of their way to inconvenience my life.

My attorney has contacted the Cape Town Head office and the people on the email correspondence amongst the Nedbank employees  to give answers as to why they called me insulting names and accuse me of fraud with no grounds. We are still awaiting their response. These emails and letters were sent about 3 weeks ago already. Explains a lot.

I  seeked legal advice as I thought I had no choice because I was taken into police custody and my innocent son had to witness them taking photos of me as if I am the criminal when I did nothing wrong .My attorney accepted my case but nothing has been resolved yet, no one has any answers for me at all. I will only use him to sue the police and Nedbank for defamation of character ,malpractice and abusing my rights.

At this point it was confirmed that Nedbank is not on my side to get my money back. But instead to inconvenience the whole process even more.

I  called the Hermanus branch the 25^th of June  again  as Riedewaan said I should follow up on the investigation but I was told he is on leave for 3 weeks as of today I then asked to speak to the stand-in Branch Manager Marienette but she said she will call me back but did not, no answers again, where must I go to get help? The following day I called Hermanus branch again asking Marrienette why she did not call me back, apparently she got my number wrong and that the police and the Nedbank’s fraud investigation department is involved and that she is not allowed to say anything.

I then asked her how will I know where the investigation is standing as Riedewaan told me he will keep me updated and that the investigation will be completed with 20 days. At this point she did not know and still does not know that I have the email correspondence that she had with the fraud investigation department saying things like ‘it is a new account. That I did my homework etc.  A whole lot of unimportant gossiping from different Nedbank consultants calling me a fraudster. I have 6 pages full of the email correspondence of the supposedly called ‘ fraud investigation department’ The evidence on these emails alone will be sufficient in my claim.

I then asked Marrienette  If there is contact details of the fraud investigation department so that I can ask them when will I get my money. She then told me that ‘she is not allowed to give their contact details and that the investigation can take longer than 20 days and that they are not even allowed to contact that people themselves’. But she will ask them to call me. By saying this ,she is totally unaware that I know she emailed them directly. Another proven lie.

Then I finally had enough of everyone wasting my time and not resolving my matter or even coming close to that, thus I decided to place a complaint on an internet site called, Hello Peter, as following Nedbank’s complaints system got me absolutely nowhere. Then after that complaint was published on the internet several people,that I never contacted before,from Nedbank suddenly found interest in my problem and said they will assist me.

Firstly a lady introduced herself as Kagiso from Nedbank’s fraud department contacted me saying “ I had your file on my desk a while ago and should have given you a buzz but now that I see you went to Hello Peter it must be important and I called you” – which exactly proved me right in my assumption that Nedbank employees does not care about their clients and no one would have done anything if I did not go public with my problem.

Kagiso kept on with the same questions and saying the same things that I have heard since the first day I spoke to Naeem, this then shows me that Nedbank’s Fraud Investigation department did absolutely nothing since they heard about my problem. She asked me they need to establish in their investigation where my money went,where my money came from and how it could have left my account without my consent; now I ask myself, what were these investigators of Nedbank doing if they still claim to not know any of this even though Riedewaan on the 3^rd June then already established that Paysoft and Stratcol unlawfully debited my account and I already told Naeem how I got that amount in my account. The obvious answer is that the Nedbank Fraud Investigation Department did not do anything from the 31^st of May until the 25^th of June. Amazing.

The evening when Kagiso called me the first time I told that the day that amount of R150 000 was transferred by me to my Nedbank account there was a lady from Nedbank that called me to ask me the same thing,where does the amount come from I then told her and she said okay and ended the phone call,thus I told Kagiso that I thought Nedbank is now satisfied with that as they accepted my money and everything was in order when they allowed some other unauthorized parties take out large amounts from my newly opened account and did not phone me repeatedly then or did not phone those parties repeatedly but now that I want my money back there is suddenly an issue and investigation.

Is a new account not allowed to have R150 000 in it. If so then Nedbank had to inform me about it beoforehand then I would never have transferred my money from my ABSA account to Nedbank. Nedbank should have informed me that for example I should only have an amount less than R10 000 in the account any amount bigger than that will result in an investigation.

ABSA never had problems when I had “big amounts” as the consultants of Nedbank call it in my account. It is my decision how much money I want in my account because it is MY MONEY. I will not entertain this investigation because it is ridiculous and redundant, nor will I furnish any information to the fraud investigation department because it was the incorrect procedure taken in the first place by Naeem Claremont branch manager. He was getting excited when he saw the “ big amounts” and did not follow the rules, laws, guidelines set out and did his own thing. How is this my problem. If he was trained, he would have known what to do. This is obviously not my problem.

I will not supply any information to the fraud investigation department quite frankly because it should never have happened in the  first place and they are not on my side of things. They are looking for any stupid reason to not give my money back.

It would have been a different story if Nedbank was investigating on my behalf but they are not, instead I am being treated like a criminal when they assisted a company to steal my money. By Nedbank not following the rules and guidelines set out when it comes to dealing with disputed debit orders, they are acting as accomplices with the companies who commit these unlawful deductions. The PASA does not state that in order for a debit order to be disputed a client must say where his/her money comes from. For all I know, I am not even sure if maybe this whole operation was done by a Nedbank staff member. Because I spoke specifically to the branch manager in Wynberg her name was Kelly when I opened the account that I am looking for an account that can take up to R200,000 with low bank charges. She then suggested the particular account. Everyone in the branch was discussing me and the amount. So there is a possibility that it could be Nedbank that is behind this unauthorized transactions.

 To make an example, its like a robber breaks into someones home and steals my couch, I then find the robber who took the couch and ask him to resolve the matter civilly to give my couch back but then he says he will only give it back if I tell him where I got the couch. THE POINT IS IT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU.

 If Nedbank does have difficulties to understand how people as young as me can be able to deposit that amount into an account then I suggest they attend certain classes or arrange meetings with economics or financial lecturers from top universities in SA to equipped them with the knowledge of how to make money. It is not my problem if my cashflow is better than their’s then they should learn how to work with their money and how to make money.

I will not accept this cross questioning about my own money when Nedbank in the first place accepted it, if they found a problem with it they should have told me they cannot accept the transfer as I must first explain where I got it from but they did not. God knows if I knew Nedbank is so unprofessional I would have never ever opened a Nedbank account. I will forever regret that day and spread the word as long as I live in this regard. Whenever I see green I want to vomit.

Kagiso called me everyday after the Hello Peter complaint went on the internet, but the calls was not at all productive in getting my money back, as she kept on with the same old thing how could you money have left without your consent, give us proof of the income- are they SARS or Nedbank? They should rather  keep themselves busy with getting my money back and following what you must as a bank as you are only allowed to follow what the banking laws of South Africa tell you to do and not to use your individual discretions because quite frankly none of those people at those branches I spoke to were in any position to use their impaired  discretion as they are completely incapable to perform their duties.

Then I told her that they should rather investigate the parties that took out my money and were able to access my account without my consent then she said they are busy doing that but she then just previously asked me who took the money, then what are they investigating???? I am so tired of the games Nedbank is playing.

Robin Van Niekerk also called me following my Hello Peter complaint saying that he will from now on liaise with me on the progress of the investigation and that he was just now appointed on my case and that he does not know anything as yet and seeing as was late in the business day that he will not be able to do anything today but will keep me informed on the progress, but why does Nedbank use new people everytime to handle my matter, would this not prolong the whole investigation—or is this the intention of Nedbank ??? I then had to explain to him from scratch everything. I am so tired of explaining the same thing over and over .

Then constantly Kagiso called me with no progress to give instead only more questions as though I took someone else’s money without their consent. Then she asked me if I reported the case to the police as Nedbank’s Fraud investigation Department cannot do anything without the SAPS case number, NOW WHY DID NO ONE IN THE BEGINNING TELL ME THAT I NEEDED TO REPORT IT TO THE POLICE BEFORE THE FRAUD INVESTIGATION DEPARTMENT CAN DO ANYTHING. This then means that everyone involved that I have spoken to has deliberately mislead me and caused al those days (25 days) being lost without any progress in my matter.

But in any event the PASA and the Ombudsman Bulletin for debit orders does not state that I need to report the matter to the police, thus Naeem decided to not follow the Banking Laws of South Africa maybe he feels he is above the law and has a discretion in these matters, he is not a judge or jury to have decided that my matter should be referred to the fraud investigation department, he was wrong because he is incapable of doing his duties and he caused me this inconvenience and further financial loss outside of the R150 000 because he is uneducated and uninformed in  the Banking Laws of South Africa and the PASA.

 Is Nedbank a bank? Because of the looks of things they do whatever they please. It would have been safer to leave my money hidden in a bag on the highway than have it with Nedbank.

Then when I asked Robin via e-mail why they are not following the PASA rules set out for banks concerning Debit Orders he did not reply and has not even e-mailed me anything since then not even any of their usual irrelevant generic responses. He chooses what he wants to respond to.

And when I asked Kagiso her e-mail address so I can ask her the same question she told me she does not give her e-mail address to others, but eventually after I e-mailed Robin asking him about the status of  my account she responded with the same questions when the whole thing started.

I then contacted Moneyweb who will be investigating and placing an article in this regard if I do not get a satisfying response from Nedbank. I am also in contact with E news in this regard to have it broadcasted as I want the whole South Africa to know about how Nedbank treats their clients. I am also in contact with Speakout to have this matter resolved.

I really need my money back now. I cannot take this any longer. I cannot sleep at night. What will happen to my son without my money. I calculated I spent R4800 unnecessarily because Nedbank is stubborn. It was R2000 for the lawyer. R2400 for the driver and R400 for the airtime to call consultants who fool around with me.