Because
of uninformed consultants like Naeem Claremont branch manager who started this whole
inconvenience unnecessarily I lost a considerable amount of money having
to pay for fuel, phone bills and an attorney to represent me when the
police got involved as though I am a criminal for wanting my money back
that was taken from me without my consent. This is totally unacceptable.
The whole situation
started because of the branch manager at Claremont branch Naeem who did
not want to listen. He was extremely stubborn and did not want to help
me.
The debit orders started
on the 18th April 2013 and totaled R150 000 was deducted by Paysoft and
Stratcol. I did not get the sms notifications because I have a 2 year
old son who has a habit of playing with my cellphone and placing it in
the most un-thought of places. I got my phone behind the fridge the 31st
of May totally drained of battery life and then saw the notifications
of all the deductions. I went online and google searched on my way to
the bank what could have happened, and came across multiple articles and
complaints that people had who had a similar thing happen to them. I
also came about the PASA and the Ombusdsman for banking services
bulletin no 12 for debit orders. As everyone claimed that a debit order
is the only way someone can access your account but that the bank must
reverse it. I then felt full of hope after reading these articles and
thought I would easily get my money back because I know I did not sign
any agreement
with any company.
I went to the Nedbank
Claremont Branch the 31st May spoke to Retail Branch Manager, Naeem and
he told me he saw on the system that the transactions that I want
reversed was not a debit order and is EFT transactions and therefore he
cannot reverse it, and that if I say I did not give authorization or
have no knowledge of the transactions then he must put a block on my
account and have it investigated as it looks like a fraudulent account
.I then asked him how long the investigation will last and when I can
expect my money back and he said 4-6 weeks and I wont be able to use my
account .Then I told him I do not want his help and he must not send my
account for investigation as I will not accept waiting that long for my
money and I cannot have my account out of order for that time period as I
would need to access it and use the money for different business
possibilities that could come along within that time and for living
expenses.
He seemed annoyed at me
for instructing him to reverse the transactions and told me not to tell
him what to do. The reason why I instructed him to reverse the money is
because I read the bulletin of debit orders of the Ombudsman for the
code of banking practice that a client must instruct his/her bank to
reverse an unauthorized debit order. He did not want to act upon my
instruction and was very stubborn to not follow what the procedure
instructs him to do. I then left feeling robbed of all my money. I feel
totally destroyed and do not know how I will survive without my money,
how can I pay my rent, buy groceries? I have a 2 year old son that I
need to take care of and need access to my money.
Then I went to Hermanus
Nedbank Branch. Because I felt I will get nowhere with the incompetent
Nedbank consultants in the Southern Suburbs of Cape Town who all seem
uninformed and incompetent. I went to the Hermanus branch on the 1st
June spoke to a stand-in Branch Manager Marienette Geldenhuys and told
her what had happened she told me the only way they could as Nedbank
reverse it is if I had a stop order against the account that took the
money from my account and if I reported it within 4 days of it being
deducted from my account. I then asked her if Nedbank does not follow
the code of banking practice because the PASA rules clearly states " if a
client disputes a debit order within 40 days from it appearing in
his/her account , the customer must INSTRUCT the bank to have it
reversed, the bank WILL then reverse it immediately." She said not
"Nedbank makes its own rules and does not follow the PASA" I then asked
her to show me what those
rules are and she said it is not open for public to see only on the
system of Nedbank and that the PASA does not regulate Nedbank. I then
asked her how can I have a stop payment if I did not know that someone
is going to deduct money from my account and that does not make any
sense at all. So she said that is the procedure Nedbank follows and
that I can come back the Monday to see the Branch Manager. I then left
feeling hopeless and totally robbed of my money and Nedbank is not
helping at all. The Monday morning I followed the booklet for complaints
resolution for Nedbank and called the Nedbank contact centre and spoke
to Thipe Matohard. I explained everything to him, provided my ID number
and he could quote me my reference number of my complaint, CCT 483903
and then told me that they cannot reverse the transaction as they can
only reserve it if it is reported within 7 days and that it was to late
to get my money back. He then gave the number of the
Ombudsman for banking services , 086 0800 900 and fax number of 011 483
3282 . This number was different as the number on the booklet but still
called it as he gave it to me. It was eventually the wrong number and
had to wait several minutes on hold until I was transferred to the
Ombudsman for banking services. The call came to an unbelievable charge.
I then came to Don Mashigo of the Ombudsman for banking services and he
asked me what the reasons why Nedbank does not want to help me. I then
said because they said the time period that I came to late. He then said
what I should do contact the Cape Town head office on 011 294 0291. He
said that he will forward to me a document on how to complete a
complaint with the Ombudsman if I do not get the money reversed by
Nedbank. He then sent the documents to me but I did not send the
complaint yet.
I then went to Hermanus
branch later that day as Marrienette told me come see the branch
manager, again I had to pay a driver to drive me all over the Western
Cape as it seemed I was getting nowhere. I had to borrow from friends
and family to make ends meet as Nedbank does not want to help me get my
own money back.
The Monday I spoke to
Riedewaan Isaacs and he called Paysoft and Stratcol where Paysoft told
him they acted on behalf of their client who does wendy house financing
as they are only debit order facilitators. I then told him I do not even
own a wendy house and R140 000 for a wendy house does not even make
sense. Unless it is a wendy house made of gold. Debit orders totaling
R10 000 was deducted by Stratcol for antique purchases. Apparently they
also deducted the money on behalf of a other business. I think they are
trying to shift blame and give me the run around so that they can get
the blame shifted from them.
Paysoft contacted their
client and could not get in touch with them but admitted that there were
no mandates or authorization for the debit orders but they will
continue to try getting in contact with their clients I then returned to
the Branch and then was informed that Paysoft could not get hold of
their client and Riedewaan told me that I should wait until Nedbank has
completed their investigation as to what happened and he also said that
Paysoft will have their own internal investigation as well and will have
an answer for me within 20 working days and that I should call him
frequently to follow up on the investigation. To me this was totally
ridiculous! Since when can the person who stole from someone make the
ultimatums. It was as though I was at the mercy of a company who
unlawfully deducted my money to give my money back. The PASA and the
bulletin for debit orders clearly touches on this issue as well. I quote
" The debit order
facility serves as a very convenient and useful manner of paying
accounts. The vast majority of bank customers use this facility on a
daily basis and rarely encounter any problems. It is however when a
debit order is disputed that a bank customer encounters problems with
his/her bank regarding the reversal or cancellation of the debit order.
Based on the complaints we receive it has become apparent that many bank
staff are unaware of the process to follow when dealing with a disputed
debit order. Often bank customers are merely told to take the matter up
with the company or institution that is debiting the account. This
creates the impression that bank customers have no control over their
accounts and are left at the mercy of unscrupulous companies that abuse
the debit order facility".
With this said I felt
totally ruined as I still did not get my money back and by having an
investigation is not a problem to me but first give me my money and then
go way out with your investigation. Because the PASA and the Ombudsman
for banking services bulletin no12 for debit order rules state that I
must instruct the bank to reverse my money but they do not want to
listen. It was like trying to explain this to a toddler when speaking to
these consultants. At this point I still thought Nedbank was on my side
with getting my money back but this changed dramatically when I was
detained for questioning by the police!
I then used the bulletin of the Ombudsman for Banking
Services where it states that I should instruct the banker to reverse
the transactions within 40 days I showed this to the Branch Manager
Riedewaan Isaacs ( hermanus branch manager) I even took my laptop with
and he read with me and we read it together and he said that I am
reading it wrong and it says that I can only get a debit order reversed
once I had a stop order because it is written in the paragraph above the
paragraph that states I should instruct the bank to reverse the debit
orders. The quote from the bulletin for debit orders is as follows
" The customer can give their bank a written stop payment
instruction to prevent a debit order for a specific amount being
processed on their account. When a debit order is returned’ payment
stopped" on the instruction of a customer, the user may not process
further debits under the system.
A customer can instruct his her/ her bank to reverse a
disputed debit order. If the disputed debit order is reported within 40
days of it appearing on the account, the bank will reverse it
immediately."
He argued with me saying that I am reading it wrong and that I
must first have a stop payment for the debit orders to be reversed. I
then told him that it does not state that " on the condition that there
is a stop payment" and that he cannot put in his own exceptions and
wording , because it is written in a paragraph above does not make it a
condition. I then told him to call the Ombudsman for services to clarify
the issue, he said NO I cant.
and that I should leave now as he can not help me and that
he has already spent too much time talking to me about this and if I am
not satisfied with his help that I can report him and there is nothing
else that he can do for me. I then again left the branch feeling robbed
of all my savings with no one to help me. What I do not understand is
how can Nedbank put such incompetent, redundant consultants in charge of
handling peoples livelihoods and income. It is like using fisherman to
do a heart transplant. People should be properly trained to do what they
do.
I then went to Gansbaai
Nedbank Branch and spoke to Clayton Sauls the Branch Manager just to
enquire about the debit order reversal procedure that Nedbank uses that
is contradictory to the code of Banking Practice bulletin that I
downloaded from the internet, again I had to pay for a driver to take me
to a different branch because Hermanus had stubborn uninformed
consultants causing me to loose money.Clayton Sauls then told me he is
newly appointed and that he will try to assist me. We then went to his
office where I gave him my ID number as I told him I do not have my ID
book with me as I only came to him to enquire about the procedure but he
said he can help me get it reversed with only my ID number so we
continued then a few short minutes thereafter the local police arrived
to take me in for questioning as there was some sort of alert on the
Nedbank system to inform everyone that if I came to any Nedbank Branch
for assistance that they
should alert the police . This whole parade started because of Naeem.
This guy should definitely get fired!!! I then had to leave my son by
the driver to take care of him because apparently I am being questioned
like a criminal.
I was totally confused
why I am the one being question, I AM THE ONE WHO SHOULD GET NEDBANK,
PAYSOFT OR STRATCOL QUESTIONED FOR TAKING MY MONEY WITHOUT MY
PERMISSION.
I then asked the police
officers what I did wrong , they could not explain and I asked them as
well as the branch manager who called the police what I did that was
wrong if I want my money returned when I did not give anyone permission
to take my money, they said because I am going from one branch to the
next "trying my luck" then I asked the police officer how can I be
trying my luck if I am in my rights to get my money back, then he could
not answer me. I could not believe Nedbank had the audacity to have me
questioned when they are the ones who let my money get taken from me.
It’s like the burglar calling the police to arrest the home owner who he
stole from for wanting his goods back from the burglar. It does not
make any sense!!! To me it was an attempt by Nedbank to intimidate me to
leave my money. In other words to have me bullied by the police to not
act out my rights as a bank customer.
I really do not know
what Nedbank gets out of it. If they are in cahoots with the debit order
companies or what. I was totally dumbstruck by the audacity to have me
questioned. It was me alone with a whole room full of rude male police
officers. I was so afraid and did not know what was going to happen.
There are multiple stories online and articles of police harassing
people in custody. I really thought this was going to happen. Because 6
male police officers were all shouting, bullying and accusing me that I
am a drug pusher. I never felt so afraid in my life. At a point I
thought I was going to get raped. All I could think about was my son. I
then had no choice but to get an attorney to protect of my rights. I
then paid an attorney R2000 to advise me on what to do.
Then Clayton gave the police officers a copy of correspondence of Nedbank employees
where they mention
things like I am a "fraudster and that no one should fall victim to me
as I instructing them to return money that I claim was taken out of my
account, that it is a new account that was not opened at Hermanus and
that I am going to different branches in the Western Cape". The police
officer made me a copy of the email correspondence of the Nedbank co
workers "These copies is currently with my attorney and will be used in
my civil action against Nedbank for Defamation of Character, Crimen in
juria. I will also sue for compensation for costs involved to get my
funds returned to me, like paying for a driver, telephone bills, legal
representation all of which was totally unnecessary if Nedbank just did
what they should. My human dignity and respect was abused by the police
and Nedbank who accused me for doing nothing wrong. I was the one who
was stolen from but everyone was too excited because of the amount that
they claim to be
a ‘big amount’ and that I am to young to have such an amount of money.
The more I told them it is not such a big amount the more they felt
insulted. Why must I give an explanation where my money comes from to
unimportant people who wants to gossip and I think is jealous of me.
Because it was as though these consultants went out of their way to
inconvenience my life.
My attorney has contacted the Cape Town Head office and the
people on the email correspondence amongst the Nedbank employees to
give answers as to why they called me insulting names and accuse me of
fraud with no grounds. We are still awaiting their response. These
emails and letters were sent about 3 weeks ago already. Explains a lot.
I seeked legal advice as I thought I had no choice because I
was taken into police custody and my innocent son had to witness them
taking photos of me as if I am the criminal when I did nothing wrong .My
attorney accepted my case but nothing has been resolved yet, no one has
any answers for me at all. I will only use him to sue the police and
Nedbank for defamation of character ,malpractice and abusing my rights.
At this point it was confirmed that Nedbank is not on my side
to get my money back. But instead to inconvenience the whole process
even more.
I called the Hermanus branch the 25th of June again as
Riedewaan said I should follow up on the investigation but I was told he
is on leave for 3 weeks as of today I then asked to speak to the
stand-in Branch Manager Marienette but she said she will call me back
but did not, no answers again, where must I go to get help? The
following day I called Hermanus branch again asking Marrienette why she
did not call me back, apparently she got my number wrong and that the
police and the Nedbank’s fraud investigation department is involved and
that she is not allowed to say anything.
I then asked her how
will I know where the investigation is standing as Riedewaan told me he
will keep me updated and that the investigation will be completed with
20 days. At this point she did not know and still does not know that I
have the email correspondence that she had with the fraud investigation
department saying things like ‘it is a new account. That I did my
homework etc. A whole lot of unimportant gossiping from different
Nedbank consultants calling me a fraudster. I have 6 pages full of the
email correspondence of the supposedly called ‘ fraud investigation
department’ The evidence on these emails alone will be sufficient in my
claim.
I then asked Marrienette If there is contact details of the
fraud investigation department so that I can ask them when will I get my
money. She then told me that ‘she is not allowed to give their contact
details and that the investigation can take longer than 20 days and that
they are not even allowed to contact that people themselves’. But she
will ask them to call me. By saying this ,she is totally unaware that I
know she emailed them directly. Another proven lie.
Then I finally had enough of everyone wasting my time and not
resolving my matter or even coming close to that, thus I decided to
place a complaint on an internet site called, Hello Peter, as following
Nedbank’s complaints system got me absolutely nowhere. Then after that
complaint was published on the internet several people,that I never
contacted before,from Nedbank suddenly found interest in my problem and
said they will assist me.
Firstly a lady introduced herself as Kagiso from Nedbank’s
fraud department contacted me saying " I had your file on my desk a
while ago and should have given you a buzz but now that I see you went
to Hello Peter it must be important and I called you" – which exactly
proved me right in my assumption that Nedbank employees does not care
about their clients and no one would have done anything if I did not go
public with my problem.
Kagiso kept on with the
same questions and saying the same things that I have heard since the
first day I spoke to Naeem, this then shows me that Nedbank’s Fraud
Investigation department did absolutely nothing since they heard about
my problem. She asked me they need to establish in their investigation
where my money went,where my money came from and how it could have left
my account without my consent; now I ask myself, what were these
investigators of Nedbank doing if they still claim to not know any of
this even though Riedewaan on the 3rd June then already established that
Paysoft and Stratcol unlawfully debited my account and I already told
Naeem how I got that amount in my account. The obvious answer is that
the Nedbank Fraud Investigation Department did not do anything from the
31st of May until the 25th of June. Amazing.
The evening when Kagiso
called me the first time I told that the day that amount of R150 000 was
transferred by me to my Nedbank account there was a lady from Nedbank
that called me to ask me the same thing,where does the amount come from I
then told her and she said okay and ended the phone call,thus I told
Kagiso that I thought Nedbank is now satisfied with that as they
accepted my money and everything was in order when they allowed some
other unauthorized parties take out large amounts from my newly opened
account and did not phone me repeatedly then or did not phone those
parties repeatedly but now that I want my money back there is suddenly
an issue and investigation.
Is a new account not
allowed to have R150 000 in it. If so then Nedbank had to inform me
about it beoforehand then I would never have transferred my money from
my ABSA account to Nedbank. Nedbank should have informed me that for
example I should only have an amount less than R10 000 in the account
any amount bigger than that will result in an investigation.
ABSA never had problems
when I had "big amounts" as the consultants of Nedbank call it in my
account. It is my decision how much money I want in my account because
it is MY MONEY. I will not entertain this investigation because it is
ridiculous and redundant, nor will I furnish any information to the
fraud investigation department because it was the incorrect procedure
taken in the first place by Naeem Claremont branch manager. He was
getting excited when he saw the " big amounts" and did not follow the
rules, laws, guidelines set out and did his own thing. How is this my
problem. If he was trained, he would have known what to do. This is
obviously not my problem.
I will not supply any
information to the fraud investigation department quite frankly because
it should never have happened in the first place and they are not on my
side of things. They are looking for any stupid reason to not give my
money back.
It would have been a
different story if Nedbank was investigating on my behalf but they are
not, instead I am being treated like a criminal when they assisted a
company to steal my money. By Nedbank not following the rules and
guidelines set out when it comes to dealing with disputed debit orders,
they are acting as accomplices with the companies who commit these
unlawful deductions. The PASA does not state that in order for a debit
order to be disputed a client must say where his/her money comes from.
For all I know, I am not even sure if maybe this whole operation was
done by a Nedbank staff member. Because I spoke specifically to the
branch manager in Wynberg her name was Kelly when I opened the account
that I am looking for an account that can take up to R200,000 with low
bank charges. She then suggested the particular account. Everyone in the
branch was discussing me and the amount. So there is a possibility that
it could be Nedbank that
is behind this unauthorized transactions.
To make an example, its like a robber breaks into someones
home and steals my couch, I then find the robber who took the couch and
ask him to resolve the matter civilly to give my couch back but then he
says he will only give it back if I tell him where I got the couch. THE
POINT IS IT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU.
If Nedbank does have
difficulties to understand how people as young as me can be able to
deposit that amount into an account then I suggest they attend certain
classes or arrange meetings with economics or financial lecturers from
top universities in SA to equipped them with the knowledge of how to
make money. It is not my problem if my cashflow is better than their’s
then they should learn how to work with their money and how to make
money.
I will not accept this cross questioning about my own money
when Nedbank in the first place accepted it, if they found a problem
with it they should have told me they cannot accept the transfer as I
must first explain where I got it from but they did not. God knows if I
knew Nedbank is so unprofessional I would have never ever opened a
Nedbank account. I will forever regret that day and spread the word as
long as I live in this regard. Whenever I see green I want to vomit.
Kagiso called me everyday after the Hello Peter complaint
went on the internet, but the calls was not at all productive in getting
my money back, as she kept on with the same old thing how could you
money have left without your consent, give us proof of the income- are
they SARS or Nedbank? They should rather keep themselves busy with
getting my money back and following what you must as a bank as you are
only allowed to follow what the banking laws of South Africa tell you to
do and not to use your individual discretions because quite frankly
none of those people at those branches I spoke to were in any position
to use their impaired discretion as they are completely incapable to
perform their duties.
Then I told her that they should rather investigate the
parties that took out my money and were able to access my account
without my consent then she said they are busy doing that but she then
just previously asked me who took the money, then what are they
investigating???? I am so tired of the games Nedbank is playing.
Robin Van Niekerk also called me following my Hello Peter
complaint saying that he will from now on liaise with me on the progress
of the investigation and that he was just now appointed on my case and
that he does not know anything as yet and seeing as was late in the
business day that he will not be able to do anything today but will keep
me informed on the progress, but why does Nedbank use new people
everytime to handle my matter, would this not prolong the whole
investigation—or is this the intention of Nedbank ??? I then had to
explain to him from scratch everything. I am so tired of explaining the
same thing over and over .
Then constantly Kagiso called me with no progress to give
instead only more questions as though I took someone else’s money
without their consent. Then she asked me if I reported the case to the
police as Nedbank’s Fraud investigation Department cannot do anything
without the SAPS case number, NOW WHY DID NO ONE IN THE BEGINNING TELL
ME THAT I NEEDED TO REPORT IT TO THE POLICE BEFORE THE FRAUD
INVESTIGATION DEPARTMENT CAN DO ANYTHING. This then means that everyone
involved that I have spoken to has deliberately mislead me and caused al
those days (25 days) being lost without any progress in my matter.
But in any event the PASA and the Ombudsman Bulletin for
debit orders does not state that I need to report the matter to the
police, thus Naeem decided to not follow the Banking Laws of South
Africa maybe he feels he is above the law and has a discretion in these
matters, he is not a judge or jury to have decided that my matter should
be referred to the fraud investigation department, he was wrong because
he is incapable of doing his duties and he caused me this inconvenience
and further financial loss outside of the R150 000 because he is
uneducated and uninformed in the Banking Laws of South Africa and the
PASA.
Is Nedbank a bank? Because of the looks of things they do
whatever they please. It would have been safer to leave my money hidden
in a bag on the highway than have it with Nedbank.
Then when I asked Robin via e-mail why they are not following
the PASA rules set out for banks concerning Debit Orders he did not
reply and has not even e-mailed me anything since then not even any of
their usual irrelevant generic responses. He chooses what he wants to
respond to.
And when I asked Kagiso her e-mail address so I can ask her
the same question she told me she does not give her e-mail address to
others, but eventually after I e-mailed Robin asking him about the
status of my account she responded with the same questions when the
whole thing started.
I then contacted
Moneyweb who will be investigating and placing an article in this regard
if I do not get a satisfying response from Nedbank. I am also in
contact with E news in this regard to have it broadcasted as I want the
whole South Africa to know about how Nedbank treats their clients. I am
also in contact with Speakout to have this matter resolved.
I really need my money
back now. I cannot take this any longer. I cannot sleep at night. What
will happen to my son without my money. I calculated I spent R4800
unnecessarily because Nedbank is stubborn. It was R2000 for the lawyer.
R2400 for the driver and R400 for the airtime to call consultants who
fool around with me.
You are not the only one, my mother is going through the same thing and it hurts so bad. My mother actually made an arrangement with them which they accepted and agreed on. Instead of doing as agreed they deducted 6 times as much and told her to speak to their legal team if she has a problem with the debit order. Worst bank ever.
ReplyDeleteThe sad part is that my mother is the one who was chasing after them to make an arrangement, not vice-versa. And they literally agreed on the arrangement, I don't even want to talk about their customer care agents, the lady was on the line talking to her friend about a certain party that they going to while we were waiting to be attended. Hate the bank.
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